tv Disrupt With Karen Finney MSNBC July 13, 2013 1:00pm-2:01pm PDT
. [ male announcer ] legalzoom has helped a million businesses successfully get started, including jessica's. launch your dream at legalzoom today. call us. we're here to help. thanks for disrupting your afternoon. we have a lot of politics to cover but at this hour we'll begin in sanford, florida. where the fate of george zimmerman is in the hands of six jurors who are more than nine hours into deliberations. >> knock, knock, who's there? george zimmerman. george zimmerman who? all right, good. you're on the jury. nothing? that's funny. >> i kind of heard trayvon saying, get off. get off. >> listen to when the screaming stops. at the instant of the gunshot. >> who do you recognize that to be? >> trayvon benjamin martin.
my son george. have you made the decision as to whether or not you want to testify in. >> i object to the court asking him about whether or not to testify. >> your objection is overruled. you continually disagree with this court every time i make a ruling. >> third degree murder, underlying conviction for child abuse. >> just when i thought this case couldn't get any more bizarre. this is outrageous. >> 17-year-old kid was profiled as a criminal. >> do you regret getting out of the car to follow trayvon that night? >> no, sir. >> trayvon martin did in fact cause his own death. and this man should not face a jury any longer than he has. >> to the living we owe respectful to the dead, we owe the truth. >> it was a tense week in sanford, florida, as both the
prosecution and the defense in the trial of george zimmerman wrapped up. each making very passionate closing arguments. >> a teenager is dead. he is dead through no fault of his own. >> it is a tragedy, truly. but you can't allow sympathy to feed into it. >> because this defendant made the wrong assumption. >> the person who decided that this is going to continue, that it was going to become a violent event, was the guy who didn't go home when he had the chance to. >> this case is not about standing your ground. it is about staying in your car. >> cement. that's a sidewalk. and that is not an unarmed teenager. with nothing but skittles trying
to get home. >> the defendant didn't shoot trayvon martin because he had to. he shot him because he wanted to. >> and with that, the presiding judge deborah nelson read the jury 27 pages of instructions. outlining three options for their consideration. convict zimmerman of second-degree murder or manslaughter or find him not guilty. deliberations then began yesterday afternoon and reconvened this morning at 9:00 a.m. we're spegting that a verdict could come down at any moment. i want to bring in our guests, legal analyst lisa bloom. criminal defense attorney john burriss and usa reporter who has been in the courtroom for much of the day. thank you all for joining me. lisa, i want to start with you. i want to talk about what's going on in the deliberations. here you have these six jurors. they have their options to consider. they have 27 pages of instructions. who knows how many pages of testimony. they heard over and over again, use their common sense.
both sides have used that. how are they going through their process of trying to determine where the evidence in front of them, which is different than some of the things we've seen, lines up with what the various options they are. >> in a system with so much transparency, we had cameras in the courtroom. we saw every minute of it. this is the part that's done in secret. there is no record kept of the jury deliberations. certain floy camera or recovering of what happens in there. we know at the beginning, they're required to choose a foreperson. at the enthey're supposed to reach a verdict. what happens in the middle is entirely up to them. they've asked for an index of the evidence. they've been given that. they have the option of doing really whatever they want. what most jurors do is go through the evidence. piece by piece or they go through the jury instructions, the legal instructions and try to match up the evidence to the jury instructions. many times juries will go around and poll everyone, at least to get an initial feel. how do you feel? guilty? not guilty of murder. guilty, not guilty of manslaughter. if you have a 5-1 or a 4-2
leaning in one direction, it is up to them what process they use. >> you've been in the courtroom from the beginning. have you gotten a sense of, i'm curious. what resonated most with the jury in terms of reactions that you observed. >> reporter: i think what resonated most with the jury was things that were visual. the concrete slab. there was george zimmerman's videotapes, taped interviews with police. i think all of zimmerman's statements were probably the most important. they were when they were leaning in. they were taking the most notes. i think they really paid attention when there were family members on the stand as well as police officers on the stand. when there was scientific evidence, it sometimes got in the weeds and it was hard for them to understand that. they really paid close attention to george zimmerman as he was explaining his side of the story. >> that's the kind of thing with the evidence, they have the testimony in front of them. they can go back. it did get very technical at
times. >> they don't have transcripts. they have action sets to the exhibits. they can ask for a readback. the court reporter would find the testimony and read it back. so far they haven't asked for that. >> let's talk about the burden of proof for each of the options. do we think that the prosecution has met the burden and do we think that, where do we think the defense effectively poked holes in the state's arguments? >> in every case we start with the presumption of innocence. the defense lawyers make a big deal about that. that is to stay presumption of innocence remains until it is overcome by evidence. then it has to be evidence beyond a reasonable doubt. and sometimes beyond a reasonable doubt is a very hard concept to understand. it happens in every case. the defendant, both the prosecutor and the defense lawyer tried to explain it in ways. there were some objections i think that should have been made about the lawyers trying to explain it but it is a challenge the jurors have to try to evaluate as a burden of proof.
the defendant really as i say, doesn't have to do anything. but in this case, this defendant did everything. they did something more so than most cases that i've ever seen. that is to say, he was actually saying, my client is factually innocent and he put forth the evidence. in many ways, this defense counsel tried this case like he was the prosecutor, and that he was in fact trying to prove that his client is in fact innocent. and the prosecutors were on the defensive. and so this is highly unusual. so from my point of view, i think the prosecution really had a challenge trying to meet the burden of proof as it relates to second-degree murder. that's a very high level. and part of that is on the malice and ill will that you need to prove. and the prosecution tried to do that with the statements that were made at the very outset. trying to show that mr. zimmerman had a state of mind as he was following mr. martin, that is consistent with the person with ill will and malice. whether or not that got connected up to the actual
shooting or not is challenging because you have to have, you have to be able to show the inconsistent statements that were made were really the product of him furthering this ill will and malice. that is a very, very difficult challenge that the prosecution has. what everyone has is a fight. they can see there's a fight. once you have a fight, then the question is, was that person injured enough to justify shooting or not? that gets you to the manslaughter consideration. so it is, i would think the prosecution has a very difficult up-hill battle on the second-degree murder. >> i've heard you make a number, talk about the key points in the trial. i guess what i want to ask you is, did the defense do an effective job of poking holes in the prosecution's case? i can you've talked about things like the position of the gun and some of the different pieces of evidence or testimony that sort of went, frankly could go both ways. can you talk about what you saw were the key moments? >> what the defense did best, they put forward a consistent narrative of what happened.
that narrative has george zimmerman lying on his back, reaching for the gun and shooting trayvon martin. he says because his life was threatened at that very moment. the prosecution hinted or suggested at other scenarios but they never really offered one. they certainly couldn't prove another scenario. beyond a reasonable doubt. they can offer one. the scott peterson case came to mind that he was convicted of killing his pregnant wife laci. nobody knows exactly what happened or how he did it. and the prosecution doesn't have to prove that. but in closing arguments in that case they put forth a story and offered, look, we don't know for sure but here's how it could have happened. i think the jury would have liked to have heard that. we hear about the fight. john burris talked about a fight. the defense said it was a fight and the prosecution went with that theory. but what it appears is that george zimmerman was hit at least once in the face. perhaps he went down and that explains the injuries on the backs of his head.
it may have been one punch. the pulling of a gun, that could have been it. we don't know. >> it seems like what you're saying, the prosecution, their case focused more on undermining george zimmerman's account of the events. you can't possibly believe, here are the holes, right? at the same time, though, to your point about -- we live and think in narrative. commercials are narrative. so it was surprising to me that the prosecution at the end didn't try to weave it all together. >> in closing argument. that's their chance to do fair comment on the evidence. to interpret the evidence and to put it together in a way that is helpful to them. for example, there was testimony that trayvon martin's outer sweatshirt was two to four inches from his body. and that the defense said therefore that shows that trayvon martin was crouching over george zimmerman. the prosecution really didn't push back on that. we're talking about a baggy sweatshirt being worn underneath another baggy sweatshirt gathered at the bottom. i would submit in the standing
position, the sweatshirt would not have been against his skin. it could have been two inches away and it was wet. >> in movement, baggy clothes move. perhaps trayvon martin's shoulders were hunched. there were scenarios that could have been offered that they did not hear about. >> i think the prosecution didn't argue enough on the reasonableness on the use of the force. because there was question about the significance of the injuries and whether or not they were really major enough to cause a reasonable person to believe that they were life threatening or that his life was in danger. i can understand the defense not wanting to do that. the prosecution really could have given another narrative to support the theory that there really was at least manslaughter. if you cannot see the other, you can see this because of these particular facts. the prosecutors do that all the time. >> you know, to that point. you mentioned the different thing you saw the jurors reacting to. we didn't as the television audience get to see all of the images that they saw, that
seemed to be pretty dramatic in terms of trayvon but then also we saw different versions of the injuries that george zimmerman sustained. what was the reaction from the jurors when they were at that? there seemed to be a lot of, it was this big of a laceration, it was -- this much blood. there was a lot of very technical information on that. >> there were three weeks of testimony. so this jury got to see these pictures kind of over and over and over again. should i mention that in preference with what i'm going to say. i think when they first saw the pictures of trayvon martin's dead body, unfortunately there were pictures of him. the close-up of his face. his hands clutched. i think they really reacted to that. they reacted to the fact that they were at somebody who for whatever reason was dead and that he was there. so i think that they did get emotional. not so much trying but as much as just being struck by it. i think when they saw george zimmerman's injuries, they didn't have as strong of an
impact. obviously they did not really get look as sad or concerned. they did still look at those injuries and take them into consideration. and they did take notes. every time those injuries were described to them. the lacerations, how long they were, how big they were, how many times he could have been hit. they did take notes on that. >> i want to get your reaction, lisa and john. the role of race was largely absent of the trial but it was alluded to in the closing arguments. and it almost felt like o'mara was trying to give permission. it was not unreasonable to see someone and make certain assumptions. on the prosecution side they talked about the danger of making assumptions. the second thing i want to quickly mention, stand your ground was not part of this case but there is not really been much conversation about the need to think about the gun laws in florida. >> absolutely. >> i'll get your reaction. >> let me talk about race. mark o'mara was not afraid to squarely talk about race.
what he said was there was a young woman who had been burglarized in the neighborhood by a young african-american male. it was reasonable for george zimmerman to think that perhaps trayvon martin was suspicious as a result. what a missed opportunity for the prosecution to come back and say, you mean to tell me that just because somebody else of this young man's race had committed a burglary, this is a criminal? that is racial profiling. and add to that, the number of prior incidents where george zimmerman had called the police about suspicious in the neighborhood. 100% of whom were african-american. the prosecution fought hard to get that into evidence. it came in. and they were silent about it in closing argument. >> i want to get your reaction. >> my feeling about it, i think lisa is right on the question that they could have talked more about racial profiling. i would submit that many people on that jury would not know what that is. we can say it. we know what it is. but you have to show them what that really is. when you had trayvon's picture there, ted hoodie on.
in the store there, talking about how long he was in the neighborhood. he could have gone home. what was he doing? he must have been doing something suspicious. those were all playing into the narrative that george zimmerman had. so he was really giving george zimmerman permission to do what he did and for the jurors to accept that. and so i thought that race was an undercurrent in this case. and that no one wanted to talk about, certainly from the prosecution point of view. in a real substantive way. and on top of that, the jurors may not have liked that either. that would have made them more squeamish about where they were. there could have been discussions that were more educational and informative without making it race-based. >> how interesting that we can trust the jurors to see aups photos but they're too squeamish to hear about race. such a sensitive real topic still. >> my thanks to lisa bloom. the jury is still deliberating this case. if we hear any developments, we
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while the debate on gun safety has seemingly taking a back seat in washington, inaction continues on new legislation, the impact of gun violence continues to ravage communities across the country. it is estimated on average, 32 americans are murdered every day. take chicago, for example, where there were 47 shootings over the fourth of july holiday weekend alone. in oakland, california, there have been close to 600 aggravated assaults involving a firearm just this year. in philadelphia, that number is over 1,100. a new cdc report showed that the homicide rate in 2010 among young people hit a 30-year low.
but as other studies have shown, rates among young black men are disproportionately higher. also this week, a university of michigan study found that among young people in flint, misch, who went to the e.r. for an assault related injury, nearly one in four said they had a gun in the past six months. 83% that they obtained those guns illegally. nearly one in five said those guns were semi-automatic weapons or assault style weapons. let me say that again. assault style weapons. like the ones our soldiers carry in afghanistan. america needs to have a conversation, a real conversation about gun safety. from background checks to concealed carry to assault weapons. and to do that i'm going to bring in my two guests, susan sal you'lls, managing director of the michigan youth center, school of public health and jarvis, a columnist. thank you for joining me. >> thank you. >> i want to start with you, susan. should i point out that the
study made a point of mentioning that the people surveyed were not involved in gangs. i think that's sometimes a misperception people might have. but the number one reason that many in the study said they had a gun was to protect themselves. talk about the student, the kids that you're work with in flint, michigan and what the situation is there. >> we have a youth violence prevention center funded by the centers for disease control. we're working to prevent gun violence. we work with individual kids, their families, with community organizations and groups to really try to build a sense of safety and security in the neighborhood. both by individual behavior and also changing the environment. we work with groups that clean up vacant properties. try to get rid of hazards in the communities. we try to get kids engaged in improving their own community. nevertheless, as you know, flint is a very violent place.
that's because it's lost a huge amount of the economic base. at one time, there were about 70,000 auto jobs in flint. 90% of those are gone. and of course, unemployment is high. poverty is high. despair is high. >> right. >> beneath that, there is a lot of determination to improve the community. >> you know, jarvis, gun laws, louisiana ranked has the fifth weakest gun laws. and the worst in gun violence, according to the center for american progress which looked at that correlation, it does not make sense. talk a little about gun legislation in louisiana. >> not only does it not make sense but it is actually getting worse. our state just passed an amendment to the constitution in november. that makes gun ownership a fundamental right in the state of louisiana. which puts on it par with freedom of speech and other laws.
and so since then, we've had a judge in new orleans to rule that that makes it improper to have laws barring felons possessing guns. so now you have prosecutors scrambling to see whether or not they will be able to convict felons in possession of weapons now that we have that law passed. so i get frustrated because so often our lawmakers don't seem to make any connection whatsoever between these, everybody should have a gun at all times type legislation and t the carnage on our streets. >> i want to pick up on the idea that young people feel the need to have guns to feel safe. you wrote a new documentary about shell shock which focuses on gun violence among young black men in new orleans. you wrote, they have a question for people outside their neighborhoods who might shake their heads and sit in judgment. what are they to do? if everybody else has a weapon and they don't, how is that
going to work out for them? if everybody else is armed and they're not, what distinguishes them from a sitting duck? if that sounds like an argument wayne lapierre might make, it is because it is the argument that wayne lapierre makes. we've got some sound from him. >> if you limit the american public's access to semi-automatic technology, you limit their ability to survive. the only thing that stops a bad guy with a gun is a good guy with a gun. >> you know, i want to get your reaction. it feels like politically, we are having two different conversations about gun violence instead of an integrated conversation that looks not only attack assess to guns and how we reduce access to guns, but also some of the other factors that would lead a child to believe that having a gun is the answer to their problems. >> yeah. i think it is a lab experiment.
we can see what happens when presumably good people, at least they think themselves to be good, have guns. what we are seeing is that people are being killed every day right and left. and you know, i am not one to endorse this argument that these teenagers are making. they are making the argument and it is exactly the nra argument. wayne lapierre argument is, people will be afraid if they think that other peel in the neighborhood might have guns and therefore, they won't do such and such a thing. but the streets in new orleans are chock full of weapons, and every day, if not multiple times a day we hear somebody getting shot and killed. clearly we can see from experience that that is not working. >> you know, susan, as you pointed out. there are a multitude of factors that contribute to what's going on. here you have kids in both cities that have a similar attitude for the need to have a gun to feel safe. we also pointed out we know that african-american unemployment nationally is much higher.
we know that means less opportunity. i frankly think that means less hopeful i think it impacts kids' self-esteem and what is possible. with the kids you're working work how are you helping them to feel safe without having a gun and to feel like there is opportunity. even as you point out, flint, really going through tough times. >> we work with kids in a number of ways. one of the things that i think is very hopeful is in that very same hospital emergency department where that study was conducted. there is now a program where within the kids that we're working with, everyone of them, if they come into the emergency room for any reason, strep throat, they take a screen to assess their risk for violence. and then they meet with a counsellor who talks with them very specifically about the answers that they gave and how they can reduce that risk for violence. of course, that conversation includes weapons. we also work with parents and
children. we have a program for fathers and sons. where we try to bring the communication between fathers and their young adolescent sons to a better point. a lot of fathers are not living with their sons but they can be very positive role models for them. so that's another thing that we do. and i think most importantly, we try to get kids engaged in improving their own community. to combat that essential of hopelessness and despair. these kids have hopes for their future. and through helping them choose and carry out projects that they would like to do to improve the community, they're getting skills. they're getting a sense that they can accomplish things. and they're getting a sense of optimism for the future. >> all right. thank you both very much. this is an issue we are going to stay on top of. we have much more "disrupt" ahead. don't forget to find us online. you can like us on facebook or tweet us and tell us what issues
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pakistani education activist malala mark her skeend birthday by addressing a special youth assembly at the united nations in new york. we honor her because malala is the kind of disruptor the world needs more of. in her remarks, she reminded us that too many children around the world are being denied their opportunity for an education, forced instead to work in sweatshops, fight as soldiers, be sold as sex slaves or married off while they're still just children. like the terrorist who shot malala, around the world and right here in america, poverty, unemployment, crime, violence and a lack of opportunity have a
similar effect. destroying hope, denying freedom, progress and a chance for bear life. here were some of her inspiring words. >> so let us wage, so let us wage a glorious struggle against illiteracy, poverty. let us speak up. let us pick up our books and our pens. they are our most powerful weapons. one child, one teacher, one book, and one pen can change the world. education is the only solution. education first. thank you. >> reminding us that each one of us can do a better job. coming up, we've got much more ahead. we're keeping an eye on the courthouse in sanford, florida, where the jury continues to deliberate in the george zimmerman trial. this is "disrupt" on msnbc. ♪
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this year marks the 50th anniversary of the march on washington and it is another pivotal year in the struggle for civil rights in america. a recent supreme court decision struck down a key part of the voting rights act. section four which was design to combat discrimination enshrined in any proposed changes to voting procedures like, say, new i.d. requirements or rolling back early voting. in the aftermath of an election in which voters face unprecedented areas to voting, a congress that cannot agree on much faces a mandate to rewrite that section and both political parties face the reality of a changed electorate. voting rights hero congressman john lewis said it best on the day of the supreme court's decision. >> the american people shall use the 50th anniversary of the march on washington and other opportunities to say we still
need voting rights protection in our country. they must compel each and member of congress to act in a bipartisan fashion, to fix, the supreme court broke. we must do it we must do it now. before another national election takes place. it is our calling. it is our mission. it is our mandate. and we have an obligation to act. >> the issue will be front and center as the naacp gathers for its 104th convention in orlando, florida. joining us now, the president and ceo of the naacp, benjamin jealous. thank you for being here. >> thank you. >> so obviously we talk a lot politically about the dysfunction in congress and the challenge of getting this done. to some degree, politically speaking, it is in the best
interests of both sides to get something done. >> that's right. that's right. this is a time for the republican party to stand up and say that they have a back bone when it comes to our most basic civil rights. we've done polling that shows that a republican presidential candidate could pick up 15% of the black vote. 50% more if he was seen as a pro civil rights candidate. this is a real opportunity for the democratic party, before the republican party to show people a different face. it is also an opportunity for democratic leaders to show that they can forge bipartisan consensus. and at this moment, we're asking the republicans to step up and we're asking the democrats to hold off on the highly partisan rhetoric as we seek to push forward the john lewis bill which thankfully is already being talked about as the lewis sensenbrenner bill which shows that at least for some people in congress, there is the intention of forging bipartisan consensus
right now. >> you know, one of the thing that struck me in the aftermath of this is that it was really the record turnout among african-american and latino voters that really changed the electorate, elected a democratic president, and you know, in essence, when you hear progressives talk about the environment or lgbt rights. you name it. that agenda would be very different, frankly, if, and we wouldn't have a president obama and congress would look very differently without the black and latino vote. i just wonder, does democratic party realize that as well. we focus politically a lot on republicans but this is a moment for democrats and other parts of the progressive moment. this is not just a black/white issue anymore. >> no. this has always been an issue at the core of our democracy itself. this voting rights act was really put in place to help us get closer to making, being one nation under god with liberty and justice for all, our
situation rather than our aspiration. we all have an interest in that. there are some folks in the party who i've heard talking about, we can use it as a wedge issue. no. all of us should be saying, we're going to get this done before it can become a wedge issue. this is a time to step up. be disciplined as citizens in saying, we are going to ensure that all of our citizens' right to vote is protected in the most basic way. >> you know, ben, i want you to tell us about the convention itself. i would be remiss if i didn't mention, obviously you are not far from where you are, the george zimmerman trial has been going on. we have the jury deliberating in the murder of trayvon martin and i wanted to get your thoughts on that as well. >> i was up on sanford on friday. and it was heartening to see that the town has really come
more close together. they have drawn closer since last year. i spent a week there last year. perhaps at the height of the tensions in sanford when we had white supremacists patrolling the town. and it was just the whole town felt like it was on edge. and people really have come closer together. i think the new chief there has done a lot of great work in his first 100 days to begin shifting the culter of that department which frankly, has had eight leaders in the past five years and was really looking for the type of principled strong management that he has brought to the task. and his mayor, jeff triplet, has been doing a very good job. but really quite frankly, it is our branch president. clayton turner had a has led that branch for 25 years and spent 25 years on law enforcement who has really helped pull things together with local clergy, both colors and people throughout the community. at the grassroots level who have
really acted to pull sanford together. that's a very good sign. >> also, people seem reasonably confident that mr. zimmerman will be convicted. when you're here on the ground, people actually know the florida jury say, it was just too much evidence not to be convicted. i think the important thing is that no matter what happens, people understand that there are still additional legal avenues. he can still be charged with federal civil rights charges. he could still be held accountable through the process. so criminal and civil news no matter what happens. it is important that people know that we as a civil rights community have always been very clear. we want to let justice run its course. we were angry last year because he wasn't being locked up. he was locked up, charged. we need to let things run its course no matter what that here, there's still more that can be done through the justice system. >> all right. ben jealous, we're going to leave it there. thank you so much.
as we've mentioned, we are keeping an eye on that jury for you. we've got three brave women who speak out about, on their own terms in the play coming up next. when you experience something great, you want to share it. with everyone. that's why more customers recommend verizon, america's largest 4g lte network. all this produce from walmart and secretly served it up in the heart of peach country. it's a fresh-over. we want you to eat some peaches and tell us what you think. they're really juicy. it must have just come from the farm. this right here is ideal for me. walmart works directly with growers to get you the best quality produce they've ever had. what would you do if i told you all this produce is from walmart?
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active dogs crave nutrient-dense food. so we made purina one true instinct. learn more at purinaone.com three women who had been held captive viciously abused and beaten for more than a decade in a cleveland, ohio home, courageously took time to offer their thanks for the support they've received since they escaped in may. now, this come as we've learned additional details about the physical and psychological assault that they endured as a new 977-count indictment was filed against their camdenor. in a video released earlier this week, amanda berry, gina dejesus and amanda knight shared their healing and determination to move forward. >> first and foremost, i want everyone to know how happy i am
to be home with my family, my friends. it has been unbelievable. i want to thank everyone who has helped me and my family through this entire ordeal. >> i want to say thank you for the support. >> i may have been through hell and back. but i am strong enough to walk through hell with a smile on my face. and with my head held high. and my feet firmly on the ground. >> these women generously let us in but they wisely did it on their term in a way that reinforces the importance of respecting their privacy as they continue to heal of there's a phrase in politics and media. feeding the beast. meaning that hungry beast of curiosity and media attention a story like this receives. the beast has been fed plenty. let's keep rooting for aimagined, a gina and michelle, but let's also focus the spotlight and our public curiosity on how a community and
a society allowed to it happen. coming up, if cuts hurt people outside washington and the beltway doesn't feel them, did they really happen? of course they did. that's next. you're watching "disrupt." with new phillips' fiber good gummies. they're fruity delicious! just two gummies have 4 grams of fiber! to help support regularity! i want some... [ woman ] hop on over! [ marge ] fiber the fun way, from phillips'.
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thanks to the government's automatic spending cuts also known as the sequester, fire service is cutting 500 members. they are furloughed one day a week right in the middle of hurricane season. in montana, approximately 800 guard and civilian air force employees are being furloughed one day a week. the "washington post" wrote it has not produced the obama administration predicted. widespread breakdowns and crucial government services. but here's the thing. if you just google the word sequester, you'll find headline after headline of cuts and hardship around the country. and there is more to come.
from our judicial system to assistance fortune employed. all if congress does not do its job. perry beacon is political editor, both are msnbc contributors. thanks to you both. ryan i'm going to start with you. the "huffington post" has been covering the impact of the sequester in the quote, real world, and as i've pointed out, it is pretty easy to find these stories, are not they? >> like up, just go to google and type in sequester and you will see page after page after page of local reports about how the sequester is hurting specific peel, specific projects, specific communities. and it goes beyond that. i think what people don't realize, we're at a place where anything that goes wrong, people will blame the sequester. pothole in the street, quest. local art class gets canceled, sequester. and it may not have anything to do with the sequester.
but people are going to use that as the focal point of their anger. i think people in washington are whistling here and not recognizing how much people identified this as a source of problems. >> and perry, to that point, people inside washington, despite what they say, it is having an impact. as ryan was pointing out, it may end up that we blame a lot more on this but it feels like there have not yet been political consequences. and we know politicians don't do anything without a big check or a political consequences. so where is that tipping point going to come? >> you think of the people suffering the sequester. you see federal workers, unemployed people, people on meals and wheels. people on an indian reservation and how they suffered there. these are not groups represented in washington. the reason the obama administration changed the rules about the employer mandate, small business complained. so right now, the sequester has been so spread out as ryan
talked about. they're really wide but they're so wide that there is not one politically active group fighting they will. that's where the tipping point needs to come from will. >> i want to get your reaction, at some point it seems like in these communities, since we've got congressional races coming up. in 2014 this could become an issue if people choose to make it an issue. >> the problem with the way the districts and the congress is set up, house republicans, someone in their district does care about. there are military cuts that affect them. they're always worried about in the primary, do i want to talk about government cuts or how much more we can cut the government. that's the challenge. can you feigned specific members of congress who feel affected enough to where they change their views. >> you know, ryan, to that point as well, it seems like the message here is also that the expectation is, you know, the people being affected don't vote. so it is okay to keep doing what we want to do the way we're doing it. >> well, they vote.
but in republican districts, they don't vote in numbers sufficient to overthrow a republican. that's very much by design. the election that matters in a majority of the districts that control the house of representatives is the primary. there for a lot of voters, if they hear that people are suffering because of cuts, they're actually in favor of that because it pureifys the sole. there is this question of who should be sacrificing. it as seems like the people on the bottom who need to be sacrificing more so that we can have more for the people at the top. >> the one cut that affected people was when the air traffic controllers were being furloughed and the sky was falling immediately. but we're not doing much to help. >> you wanted to say? >> yes.
when it comes to sacrifice, that's when people say we ought to share. by share they mean working class and lower class ought to take the brunt of it. when it comes to new york cuts, that goes to the top 1%. >> we have a quick graphic that shows where the cuts are coming and also, another one that shows where the republicans want to spend money. and again if you take a look, if you compare the cuts in spending to where they want to spend, it seems like very different set of priorities. to your point, these are people are well represented in washington. >> we don't really have a bored he fence problem in search of a solution. immigration, illegal immigration is going down in the economy because of the economy. we know that. the money is for a specific political agenda. the one silver lining here is the economy has been so strong. it has not suffered as much as we thought from the sequestration. it is bad but not as bad as it
could be. >> thank you. >> that does it for me. thank you so much for joining us. please don't forget to share your thoughts. you can find us on facebook and tweet us at msnbc "disrupt." don't go anywhere. the ed show is up next. with tums freshers. concentrated relief that goes to work in seconds and freshens breath. tums freshers. ♪ tum...tum...tum...tum... tums! ♪ fast heartburn relief and minty fresh breath. tums freshers. resoft would be great, but we really just need "kid-proof." softsprings got both, let me show you. right over here. here, feel this. wow, that's nice. wow. the soft carpets have never been this durable. you know i think we'll take it. get kid-friendly toughness and feet-friendly softness, without walking all over your budget. he didn't tell us it would do this. more saving. more doing. that's the power of the home depot. right now, get whole-home installation for just 37 bucks. [ male announcer ] you wait all year for summer.
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[ male announcer ] your favorite foods fighting you? fight back fast with tums. calcium-rich tums starts working so fast you'll forget you had heartburn. ♪ tum tum tum tum tums good evening, americans. welcome to the ed show live from new york. i'm joy reid sitting in for ed schultz. for now, this is the ed show. let's get to work. they took a bill that had been about motorcycle safety and ded to turn it into an abortion bill.